That this Prayer Book was not regarded as abolishing the old religion is shown by the fact that, of 9400 Marian clergy, only about 200 refused to take the oath of supremacy and accept the new Prayer Book. Elizabeth indignantly refused to send a representative to the Council of Trent because England was summoned as a Protestant, and not as a Catholic, country. She said, in her letter to the Roman Catholic princes, 'that there was no new faith propagated in England; no new rerligion set up but that which was commended by our Savior, practised by the primitive Church, and approved by the Fathers of the best antiquity.'
Percy Dearmer, The Parson's Handbook (1899), Introduction, n. 20
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"The Council of Trent is by far the most important of these later councils; and the claim that its decrees are infallible and irrevocable, and must be accepted without question as a condition of communion with Rome, is perhaps the most serious obstacle to the reconciliation of Rome with any other part of Christendom. For these decrees include the first five of the papal claims mentioned above, and they have set tradition on a level with Scripture as a source of dogma. If nay new dogma can be imposed on the Church on the authority of tradition without Scripture, we have no security that the faith of the Church will always remain the same. But many of the definitions of Trent have their origin in late medieval traditions: which is true also of the two dogmas imposed by the Vatican Council, the infallibility and universal ordinary jurisdiction of the Pope; and of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin, which was imposed by the Pope alone,without any Council." pp 312, 313 "The Christian Faith; Claude Beaufort Moss, D.D.; London, S.P.C.K. 1961
And since Trent was less a council of even the Churches of the Roman obedience than one run for the benefit of the Spanish monarchy, it deserves less of our respect than we have previously given it.
The problem with so-called Anglo-Catholics is that they are generally both less Anglican and less Catholic than the old fashioned high churchmen. They primarily claim 'catholicity' by their imitation of Rome and the rubrics of the Pian missal. They need to become much more conversant both with the true Anglican tradition and the writings of the fathers than they are with 'Ritual Notes.' They need to take much more seriously what Elizabeth I attempted and realize that without its ultimate success, they would have no claim to either Catholicity or tradition.
Ouch! "So called Anglo-Catholics." Let me get this correct. We use Holy Scripture (including the Apocrypha), we use the 1928 Book of Common Prayer (also the Anglican Missal, the American Missal, the 1549 Book of Common Prayer, and the 1662 Book of Common Prayer), the 1940 Hymnal, we follow the edicts of the first Seven Great Councils of the Undivided Church, and extensively read and follow the teachings of the Early Church Fathers. Yet we are so called Anglo-Catholics. One wonders what constitutes a real Anglo-Catholic.
Father David,
You are almost thee. But please go back and read the rubrics of the classical prayer books in succession. Do you do what is ordered without addition or subtraction? I would suggest that when tell us that you use the various missals. i.e; you are in fact admitting that you violate the rubrics of the prayer books but also the canons of the earliest General Councils. In short, and it really pains me to point this out, you have made the Roman Church since the late sixteenth century your liturgical authority and by so doing have made it also THE authority in so many other things besides. You most likely used the Roman scheme of liturgical colours which was specifically devised as as a sign of submission to the Roman See and an acceptance of the Roman claims of universal ordinary jurisdiction. You probably put six candles on the altar instead of the ancient two on the grounds that it is more "Catholic" as well as a number of other things which Anglican usage as defined by the Ornaments rubric has in common with those ancient rites which were allowed to continue while Rome was in the process of suppressing everything else.
I would believe that your intentions are entirely catholic while your performance is less so. How, for example, do you handle the demand that the deacon, priest or bishop "use this book and none other" or the other similiar parts of the English prayer book? On the other hand, what would the reaction of Rome or Constantinople be to a cleric who began with out the permission of his bishop or other authority to use any of the Anglican Books of Common Prayer? I think we both know the anser to that one.
If you playing in the Super Bowl for the Saints, what would anyone think if you wanted to do so in a Colts uniform? What would the fans or your fellow players think?
I believe fully in the Catholicity of Anglicanism, but I also think that means that one accepts a not so little thing called Apostolic Order and Catholic obedience. I realize that a great many Anglicans don't quite understand either of those things which leads us all down paths which it would be so much easier to avoid.
So tell me, what was the colour of the vestments which you wore on Sunday? Was it based upon the English, i.e., Anglican tradition or that of the missal of Pius V?
I follow the canons of the Anglican Province of America as to which Missals/Prayer Books are authorized for usage in the Province. As for Liturgical Colors I rely on the Churchman's Ordo Kalendar for usage with Book of Common Prayer (1928) and American and Anglican Missals. I will reread and see if other questions need answering.
I believe that if Anglo-Catholics want to adhere to the faith of the Undivided Church of the Seven Ecumenical Councils they need to drop the FILIOQUE from the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, since it represents an alteration and an unwarranted addition to the original Faith of early Christianity. Some Western Christians, like the Old Catholics have already done that, and traditional Anglicans should do it too.
If Orthodox Anglicanism wants to be truly catholic it needs to drop the FILIOQUE from the Creed, since this was the first doctrinal innovation of the Roman church to catholic Christianity. The Old Catholics have already done so without compromising their Western heritage.
Father David, your response to my last post was a clear indication that whatever your decision having done the reading suggested, you don't fall into my definition of "so called Anglo-Catholics." I would suggest however that you expand your reading list to the works of the Alcuin Club up until approximately 1965, adding to that a reading of the liturgical and theological works of the members of the committee when Bishop Charles Gore was its president. Between those men and the Very Reverend Vernon Staley you have the very cream of liturgical scholarship of their period. If you do so I think that you will find that the Catholicity of Anglicanism was not something which began with the Tracts and the Oxford Movement but had instead persisted from the Reformation period forward.
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